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Skill versus leveling
Submitted by Boo on Fri, 06/23/2006 - 11:51
Were all basically in agreement that phoenix will not have a level system in place. But here is an idea for a skill based system that i thought of.
For those that have played Eve you may recognise some of these elements.
How about we go with a system where you are not given a tree to learn skills but you must complete a task to learn the basics of a skill. For example you want to learn how to use a gun, then you must spend time out in the wild shooting at some kind of target. That will give you the basic ability to pick up a gun and fire it. As you practice more with the gun you gain more skill with it (allowing your chance to hit to go up for example). Eventually you get really good with it and decide that you like the six shooter over the winchester or 12 guage. So you decide to specialise in the colt sidearm.
You then gather the required sill to learn that sidearm and become bettter and better at using it. That doesnt mean your skill gets worse with the 12 guage but its definately not the same skill level you have with your pistol. Over time you get as good as you can with a pistol and decide to concentrate on the winchester now. Does your skill with a pistol stay the same? Probably not because youre now spending more time with your rifle over your pistol.
How this works in game mechanics:
1. you get training in ranged weapons, spend time and xp learning general ranged weaponry combat and repair.
2. you train to some level of expertise with ranged combat and branch to the pistol line becoming better and beter along the way eventually getting to the expert level.
3. You decide that you want to learn all you can about rifles instead. You dont drop your pistols, but start learning your rifles trees. Over time the pistols start feeling the effects and you begin dropping parts of its skill level dropping you below expert pistols but moving you into the advanced rifles stages.
This would be done using skill points similar to SWG and training would be obtained in the same manner that you train in Eve. This would allow you to specialize in weapons but when you pick up a rope and try to wrastle the cows, people generally steer clear of you in case they end up being dragged behind the horse your riding.
So you start the game (everyone) with say 100 skill points. Skill level 1 requires you spend 1 skill point. You can choose a total of 1 skill upon entering the game that you are qualified to use (crafting, ranching, weaponry kinda thing). You choose weaponry and enter the game with 99 skill points left. To make the next skill level in weaponry, you have to achieve a set amount of experience and spend 2 skill points, 3 points for skill level 3 and so on. You train to skill level 10 (advanced) with your general weaponry and branch to the six shooter training skills where you eventually reach expert level (75 skill points used or whatever).
The extra 25 skill points would go twords things like "First aid" so when you stick your thumb in the hammer you can properly bandage it or what have you.
Now because this is a book already and Im not describing everywhere this idea goes, im going to leave it at this and hopefully inspire some discussion both for and against it as well as questions on how situations could be hanled concerning it.
REMEMBER this is a discussion and doesnt mean this is how it will be. its just an idea.
__________________
Definition Love is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope...Love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticule, and together, achieving a singular purpose against s
RE: Skill versus leveling
Well for me I enjoyed the skill tree system in SWG the most. Being able to make your own unique template was the best. There were so many professions to choose from I can understand how balancing would be an issue but I'm 100% sure that SOE were complete idiots and that a group of hardworking devs would be able to balance things out.
Anyway, the system you suggested sounds good as well, but if you're gonna have a system like that then you should allow 2 characters per account, make crafting use a different set of skill points, or let us balance the two, lets us be a master in crafting for one of the crafting discplines while being advanced in some form of combat so we are still effective enough to enjoy both sides of the game.
Re: RE: Skill versus leveling
As a player, this was my biggest complaint in SWG. When JTL first came out, I decided I wanted to be a Shipwright, but at the same time, I didn't want to lose any Creature Handler. So basically, I didn't become a Shipwright.
Crafting will be a huge part of the game. Players will have to depend on each other to advance through the game. Certain items will always be available via NPCs, drops, or quests, but higher quality items will come from crafters. Items of the highest quality will be rare as the materials to produce them will also be rare and only available to master crafters.
At the same time, we don't want players to be locked into a single profession. There should be some flexibility or players to be tradesmen and follow a combat profession too.
RE: Re: RE: Skill versus leveling
In context it allows the gamer, i.e the end user, to have their own experiences by not being fenced in to a stringent level based system. I feel allowing players to construct and psychologically adapt their world to their needs is key to an extent.
This can be done by constructing invisible boundaries, whilst making the player feel that he/she is in control of their own destinity, by determining their choices. In reference the Matrix, or constructing a "fate" liek system.
In basic terms, allowing the gamer to control their destiny.
Skill versus leveling
I like the idea of skill based very much. I am wondering if entering the game with only one skill is too limiting though. Assuming that a person enters the game as an 18 year old in this world, that person has probably developed a couple of skills. If one grew up on a ranch, they probably have developed basic skills in animal husbandry, basic knowledge of guns, possibly even cooking and literacy. A Native probably has knowledge of guns or basic ranged (bow, javelin), horseback riding, hunting (tracking), animal harvesting (converting carcass into resources).
Just off the top of my head, I think it would be useful to have a starting character have 4 starting skills, but they would have to be used in different branches.
Skill versus leveling
We don't necessarily think limiting the player's number of skills is the answer either. Instead, a player may be able to use a pistol, rifle, melee weapon, and all the while have some experience in husbandry.
Now, if this player mainly focuses on combat with his/her pistol, their rifles ability should suffer some loss in skill over a period of time as long as it's an unused skill. Likewise, if they only focus on animal training or breeding, they may not be the best in combat.
The skill system is about balance, but not a predetermined balance. Instead, the players decide their balance. If you focus on a small amount of skills, you'll excel at them. If you try to do a little bit of everything, you may be a well-balanced player, but you couldn't possibly master them all.
Skill versus leveling
I understand the concept of skills degenerating over time from neglect, but will players also be able to "un-learn" skills? For example, say I want to spend 10 skills points to get the next "level" as a blacksmith, but I only have 5 points left... Would I able to give up a skill to regain those spent skill points?
Also, I read somewhere on the site about different races to choose from, and I believe JMP addressed the issue of different advantages per race. Perhaps if every race had a certain starting value for all skills and then the player was given the 1 skill point Boo talked about to spend as they pleased that would strike a balance.
Peace,
- Vinny
It's like a fellow I once knew in El Paso. One day, he just took all his clothes off and jumped in a mess of cactus. I asked him that same question, "Why?"
- Steve McQueen in The Magnificent Seven
Skill versus leveling
Absolutely! The whole idea behind the skill system is to allow players to advance in whatever they want their characters to do. If you don't like a skill or profession, you can drop it in favor for another.
We haven't totally fleshed out racial advantages or bonuses as of this time. Our primary goal right now is to get a core game released to closed beta to get more feedback from the community.